THE BOOK
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TENDER BUTTONS
WORD COUNT
(Total)……..- 1757
STANZA(S)............................-
37
THE
LEADER........................-
THE STEINY ROAD POET
Here are “Roastbeef.” stanzas 9 through 17 with a 298-word
count. Among the topics addressed in this post are: how Gertrude Stein reacted
to her brother’s departure from 27 rue de Fleurus; cocks, cockiness and cock’s comb;
hearing Walt Whitman’s barbaric yelp; Plato and the featherless biped.
Room to comb chickens and feathers and ripe
purple, room to curve single plates and large sets and second silver, room to
send everything away, room to save heat and distemper, room to search a light
that is simpler, all room has no shadow.
There is no use there is no use at all in
smell, in taste, in teeth, in toast, in anything, there is no use at all and
the respect is mutual.
Why should that which is uneven, that which is
resumed, that which is tolerable why should all this resemble a smell, a thing
is there, it whistles, it is not narrower, why is there no obligation to stay
away and yet courage, courage is everywhere and the best remains to stay.
If there could be that which is contained in
that which is felt there would be a chair where there are chairs and there
would be no more denial about a clatter. A clatter is not a smell. All this is
good.
The Saturday evening which is Sunday is every
week day. What choice is there when there is a difference. A regulation is not
active. Thirstiness is not equal division.
Anyway, to be older and ageder is not a surfeit
nor a suction, it is not dated and careful, it is not dirty. Any little thing
is clean, rubbing is black. Why should ancient lambs be goats and young colts
and never beef, why should they, they should because there is so much
difference in age.
A sound, a whole sound is not separation, a
whole sound is in an order.
Suppose there is a pigeon, suppose there is.
Looseness, why is there a shadow in a kitchen,
there is a shadow in a kitchen because every little thing is bigger.
“[There is] a sense that there
is a shadow (a dark presence) and that every little thing is getting bigger, a
sense that things are being distorted, magnified, blown out of proportion,
escalating. All does not seem well at the heart of the home.” Peter Treanor
AFTER LEO LEAVES, GERTRUDE STEIN GETS
ROOM TO EXPAND
Just as “Roastbeef.” Discussion 3
began, the Steiny Road Poet thinks it is best to address the physical plane
first and therefore goes once again to the biographical commentary detailed by Karren
Alenier [a.k.a. Steiny Road Poet or Steiny] in the ModPo discussion forum.
As stated, while stanza one has boat imagery, stanza four seems to point to relation-ship,
so Stein continues the study of sister-brother relationship in stanzas 9
through 17. This time, Stein presents from her own point
of view versus her brother’s. Alenier observed:
Room to comb chickens and feathers and ripe
purple, room to curve single plates and large sets and second silver, room to
send everything away, room to save heat and distemper, room to search a light
that is simpler, all room has no shadow.
“Gertrude is saying
with Leo gone she has more room to do what she pleases. Ripe purple makes me
think of grapes and the harvest season. Maybe GS wants to say she is coming
into her harvest season as indicated by the plates which might be those
involved with printing books, her books. The silver could also point to photo
engraving, something also involved with the art of fine bookmaking. With Leo
gone there will be less heat and distemper (anger). There will be an
opportunity to explore bringing electric lights into the apartment (search a
light)”
There is no use there is no use at all in
smell, in taste, in teeth, in toast, in anything, there is no use at all and
the respect is mutual.
“What I picture is an angry scene at breakfast (my cue is the
toast) where Leo is baring his teeth over some minor infraction and Gertrude is
saying facetiously that she is affording Leo the same respect he is affording
her.”
Why should that which is uneven, that which is
resumed, that which is tolerable why should all this resemble a smell, a thing
is there, it whistles, it is not narrower, why is there no obligation to stay
away and yet courage, courage is everywhere and the best remains to stay.
“Gertrude is responding to Leo whom she regards as cowardly to
leave. Perhaps, he has said that the situation with Alice living with them
stinks.”
If there could be that which is contained in
that which is felt there would be a chair where there are chairs and there
would be no more denial about a clatter. A clatter is not a smell. All this is
good.
“Like the table, the chair is a philosophic construct
between Gertrude and Leo and deals in some capacity with existence. But chair could also refer to the French
word chair, which means flesh or meat. Clatter could mean chatter. In any case, Gertrude and Leo constantly talked to
each other about philosophic ideas and morality.”
The Saturday evening which is Sunday is every
week day. What choice is there when there is a difference. A regulation is not
active. Thirstiness is not equal division.
“Saturday evening is when they held their weekly parties. Perhaps
some of those parties went late into Sunday morning?”
Anyway, to be older and ageder is not a surfeit
nor a suction, it is not dated and careful, it is not dirty. Any little thing
is clean, rubbing is black. Why should ancient lambs be goats and young colts
and never beef, why should they, they should because there is so much
difference in age.
“Could this be something to do with Leo saying he has come into
his maturity because he wants to explore a relationship with a woman he has
been seeing? There is also a sense of aged meat, aged flesh in this stanza.”
A sound, a whole sound is not separation, a
whole sound is in an order.
“Is Stein talking noise or body of water? Is the
order an edict from her brother Leo? Perhaps.”
Suppose there is a pigeon, suppose there is.
“Is the pigeon a bird or a dupe, someone victimized? Does
Gertrude think her brother has fooled her in some way. Was she depending on him
to always be there for her?”
Looseness, why is there a shadow in a kitchen,
there is a shadow in a kitchen because every little thing is bigger.
“Is the shadow in the kitchen Alice, the one who cooks and
nurtures? Are we back to thinking about the installation of electric lights?”
Peter
Treanor responded to this biographical reading as follows:
“Yes, Karren, I really like the reading and can see the hot
(roasting) beef between GS and Leo here and even an ominous shadow in the
kitchen that is the cause of it (Alice). There seems to be a lot of birds,
fowl, foul (chicken and pigeons) at this meat feast.
“The stanza 9 concentrates so repeatedly on room. Is she referring to the space to do something or an actual
part of the house? It does have the feel of a kitchen, the place where food is
prepared, but maybe the space to do it now that Leo's dominant presence has
been removed or weakened.
“Is the chicken referring to something cowardly, or youthful
(he’s no spring chicken—age is mentioned later) or foul? She speaks of smell
later, a foul smell, something that stinks, as you say?
THE DELICACY OF COCKSCOMB
“There is a focus on smell and taste and something that
whistles. The whistling intrigues me, what whistles? A bird like a canary or a
kettle or a train is all I can think of. A whistling kettle makes me think we
are in a kitchen, with all the tastes and smells and clatter of pans. And it
whistles because it is heated up and steam is rising, which gives the
impression of heat and pressure and steam being released in a high-tension
emotional environment. Argument as ‘letting off’ steam.
“Chair as flesh is
marvelous, and then there's chair as someone who is taking the lead role too,
the chair of the (eating) meating [or meeting!]. Is she in the driving seat and liking it? Is she now the
one carving the joint?
“The Saturday Sunday thing does seem to point to their Salons,
and shedding light (in the room) and thirstiness (for knowledge) seem to
suggest that there is an exchange of ideas and a search for meaning going on
but maybe not everyone is engaged in this to the same degree.
“The ‘older and aged and ancient lambs and goats and young colts
and never beef’ bit baffles me completely, but I love it! Who what is the
ancient lamb? Is it Jesus? (the Lamb of
God?). But it’s the first time I can remember her talking about age so
pointedly. Somehow here the age of the thing seems really important.
“And the last line feels really ominous to me , a sense that
there is a shadow (a dark presence) and that every little thing is getting
bigger, a sense that things are being distorted, magnified, blown out of
proportion, escalating. All does not seem well at the heart of the home.
“So yes, one of the roast beefs in ROASTBEEF is the hot dispute
with Leo that is cooking between them.”
Alenier
responded with enthusiasm:
“We are indebted to Allan
Keeton for discovering the French connection between chair and flesh!
“And yes, to be chair, as in chair of the English Department.
Someone in the driver's seat, which Stein was to assume when she learned to
drive in WWI so she and Alice could deliver medical supplies to the French
army.
“Pete, what a good interpretation to Thirstiness is not
equal division! That is, light=knowledge and not everyone is operating on
the same intellectual plane!
“Here's another thought
on this menagerie [ancient lambs and
goats and young colts and never beef ] but first I'm going to set out the
def:”
me•nag•er•ie (məˈnædʒ ə ri, -ˈnæʒ-)
n.
1. a collection of wild or unusual animals, esp. for exhibition.
2. a place where they are kept or exhibited.
3. an unusual and varied group of people.
“This menagerie is the group of people (who considered
themselves cultured therefore not wild, Xcept for thinking themselves hip) who come to the Stein salons. Maybe
the dominant age for the salons ruled over by Leo was older and Gertrude wants
younger folks there. This seems to play out in the 1920s when she begins
attracting the young stallions like Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald.
“Relative to: A sound, a whole sound is not separation, a
whole sound is in an order, it
occurs to me that maybe this is some kind of reference to Walt Whitman and his
barbaric yelp.
“Gertrude and Leo talked to each other a lot about Whitman. How
this relates to Whitman might be through chair
as flesh.”
Treanor
replied:
“What meaning of sound is she using?
There's talk of the senses and noise in particular, clatter and whistles in the
piece so maybe sound is noise, but it could be reliableness/completeness too?
Something whole, complete, sound.”
A sound, a whole sound is not separation, a
whole sound is in an order.
“It’s an interesting line, it seems to be an echo,
echoing/repeating the sound, the whole sound. It says sound is not
separation yet the whole sound is repeated and separated in
the sentence. And the whole sound is said to be IN an order, not just an order
but in an order, this seems really
intriguing. What whole sound is in an order?
“Yes, it could be WWs or the noise of the street, his blab
of the pave.
I had a feeling of it being a bell, as a bell could loosely be
said to have a (w)hole sound. The cavity in the centre of a bell could be said
to be a hole. And then I wondered if a peel of the bell could be seen as an
order? An appeal (a peel) being an order. But I’m not really sure that an
appeal is an order , more of a request than an order I guess .
“And I guess order doesn’t have to be a command, it could be a
sequence. So a whole sound in a sequence could be a musical scale or a harmony
of notes, a chord, accord, agreement, or a symphony?”
“Pete, Your thorough discussion of sound as bell is quite
interesting and makes me think that maybe order could be monastic, as in
an order of monks. Possibly this could relate to Gertrude and Leo
wearing their corduroy outfits and sandals and being referred to as the Stein
brothers (as if they were monks).
“Here's something else that occurred to me:
Stein uses the word sounder and sound in section 1
"Objects".
The
sight of a reason, the same sight slighter, the sight of a simpler negative
answer, the same sore sounder, the intention to wishing, the same
splendor, the same furniture. from "A piece of coffee.".
Elephant
beaten with candy and little pops and chews all bolts and reckless reckless
rats, this is this.
“Both of these uses of sound seem negative to me.
“In ‘A piece of coffee.’, she seems to be pointing to
philosophic discussion with the words reason, negative answer, intention,
and same furniture—which I would take to be tables and chairs. That's
why I think a whole sound is in an order might be an edict from
Leo.
“What occurs to me about ‘A sound’ is how reckless reckless
rats echoes in ‘A substance in a cushion.’:
What
is the use of a violent kind of delightfulness if there is no pleasure in not
getting tired of it. The question does not come before there is a quotation. In
any kind of place there is a top to covering and it is a pleasure at any rate
there is some venturing in refusing to believe nonsense. It shows what use
there is in a whole piece if one uses it and it is extreme and very
likely the little things could be dearer but in any case there is a bargain and
if there is the best thing to do is to take it away and wear it and then be
reckless be reckless and resolved on returning gratitude.
“In ‘Roastbeef.’, we have a whole sound and in ‘A
substance in a cushion.’, we have a whole piece. Maybe piece is
really peace.”
Steiny has one additional thought about a
whole sound and that is that perhaps Stein might
be thinking of the grave, as in a hole
sound, in which case it might be a sucking sound. Also the association
comes up because stanza 14 uses words like older,
ageder, suction, dated, dirty, and ancient.
PLATO AND CURVED PLATES
To fully appreciate Stein, a reader often has
to reach into philosophic discourse. How a reader arrives at such an
intellectual plane in Stein is often through the backdoor. Take the discussion
initiated by Karren Alenier that
married together room to curve single
plates with Plato’s definition of a human being.
“The value of Plato's
philosophy was questioned most strenuously by the Cynic philosopher Diogenes of Sinope who
considered Plato an `elitist snob' and a `phony.' When Plato defined a human being as a bi-ped without feathers,
Diogenes is said to have plucked a chicken and presented it in Plato's
classroom, crying, "Behold, Plato's human being."
Plato allegedly replied that his definition would now need to be
revised, but this concession to a critic seems to have been an exception rather
than the rule. Criticisms aside, however, Plato's work exerted an enormous
impact on his contemporaries and those who followed.
“Gertrude Stein must have felt like a plucked chicken before all
her critics but unlike Plato, she was NOT going to apologize because wasn't she
the honest man Diogenes was looking for? Well, she thought so…
“One thing more about Diogenes: he held the belief that if
an act is not shameful in private then it should not be shameful in public.
Oops, I guess Gertrude wasn't so honest because to be honest was not to
be a combed chicken but a jailbird.
“OMG, Diogenes is someone I Xpect we will be coming back to!
“Now I'm swooning to my fainting couch.”
Here’s how Treanor
answered:
“No wonder you are in a nervous
eclipse, the Diogenes find and the chickens and Plato are fantastic! And look
at all those rooms in the first passage—room, space, opportunity.
Room to think, room to maneuver.
And room to curve single
plates, a single plate and a curve, a curve is an arc, or a complete arc is
a O. So a plate and a curve is Plateo!
Is she asking to send everything away to give her room to think to
illuminate her thoughts to shine a light on ancient philosophy?
“Plato talks of the form of objects, in
this world, being a shadow of the true form that exist outside of our
reality.
According to Aristotle's theory of perception, we perceive an object by receiving its form with
our sense organs.[7] Thus, forms include complex qualia such as colors, textures, and flavors, not
just shapes.[8]
So chickens and feathers, plates,
curves and Plato, room, searching, light and illumination and shadow all seem
to dance around the themes of these Greek thinkers. If you were going to write
a new type of epic, you'd have a love story, a bit of religion, and some ancient
Greek philosophers for sure.”
Alenier said,
“I love your conjoining
Plato with plate ==>Plateo!
“Good Q about why Stein is asking to send everything away. I'm
guessing this has to do with Leo Stein moving out of 27 rue de Fleurus. He and
she often spoke about philosophy so it is very clever how she brings the two
together—what is on the temporal plane, what is on the philosophic.
“I really appreciate your discussion of the senses. I noticed
how much these stanzas pay attention to the 5 senses. I was also thinking all
the repetition of room was something like her opening stanza repeating feeling,
and stanza 4 repeating considering. Interesting to see how she uses
repetition in different ways.”
Steiny noticed that within “Roastbeef.”, plate
occurs three times. Stanza 4 is particularly worth looking at because it uses
repetition of the word considering in
much the way a philosophic argument might unfold:
Considering
the circumstances there is no occasion for a reduction, considering that there
is no pealing there is no occasion for an obligation, considering that there is
no outrage there is no necessity for any reparation, considering that there is
no particle sodden there is no occasion for deliberation. Considering
everything and which way the turn is tending, considering everything why is
there no restraint, considering everything what makes the place settle and the plate
distinguish some specialties. The whole thing is not understood and this is not
strange considering that there is no education, this is not strange because
having that certainly does show the difference in cutting, it shows that when
there is turning there is no distress.
Also interesting is while stanza 9 has room to curve single plates, stanza 4
has way the turn is tending. And turn for that matter might be suggesting
the seabird known as the tern.
Participants: Karren Alenier, Peter Treanor
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