Cooking with Tender Buttons Food: Roastbeef. Stanzas 18-21. Discussion 5

THE BOOK ..........................-           TENDER BUTTONS

THE SUBBOOK ...................-           FOOD

THE SUBPOEM ..................-            Roastbeef

WORD COUNT (Total)……..-           1757

STANZA(S)............................-           37

—Stanzas 1-3

—Stanzas 4-8

—Stanzas 9-17

THE LEADER........................-           THE STEINY ROAD POET

CO-LLABORATORS.............-            MODPO STUDENTS/THE BUTTONS

Here are “Roastbeef.” stanzas 18 through 21 with a 161-word count. Among the topics addressed in this post are: the bones of contention between Gertrude Stein and her brother Leo, kitchen items or natural elements that stand in for Alice Toklas, kind as stand in for gender, Stein’s gaming and cubism, what comes in fours (e.g. winds and humors) and the four Passover questions, Apollinaire’s and Stein’s interest in the fourth dimension, and the gematria of four which points to door.

The time when there are four choices and there are four choices in a difference, the time when there are four choices there is a kind and there is a kind. There is a kind. There is a kind. Supposing there is a bone, there is a bone. Supposing there are bones. There are bones. When there are bones there is no supposing there are bones. There are bones and there is that consuming. The kindly way to feel separating is to have a space between. This shows a likeness.

Hope in gates, hope in spoons, hope in doors, hope in tables, no hope in daintiness and determination. Hope in dates.

Tin is not a can and a stove is hardly. Tin is not necessary and neither is a stretcher. Tin is never narrow and thick.

Color is in coal. Coal is outlasting roasting and a spoonful, a whole spoon that is full is not spilling. Coal any coal is copper.

“What are spoons? Could Stein be playing with words and meaning Spoonerisms?” Peter Treanor

THE BONE OF CONTENTION BETWEEN GERTRUDE AND LEO

To continue with the theme of hidden relationships that began with earlier stanzas of “Roastbeef.”, the Steiny Road Poet offers that stanza 18 with its seven repetitions of the word bone, might be pointing to the notion of bone of contention. Here’s what Peter Treanor had to say:

“I was wondering if Stein is using bone and bones in the sense of a disagreement/argument, as in ‘I’ve got a bone to pick with you.’

“Is she saying there are four choices in a difference (disagreement)? There are bones of contention that are all consuming. The best way to separate is to have some space?

“This seems to point to a row and separation from Leo, all those kinds in there, kind=alike and kin.”

THE OBJECTS THAT STAND IN FOR ALICE

While Gertrude’s failing relationship with her brother Leo may be hidden in how she presents this subject in the text of Tender Buttons, the actual hidden relationship is her marriage to Alice Toklas.  Stanzas 19 through 21 might be pointing to Toklas, who, in other discussions, particularly those about the subpoems of section 1 “Objects”, has been associated with objects in the kitchen, such as what Stein offers in these “Roastbeef.” stanzas, as spoons, tables and stove but also as the element copper.

On the subject of copper and other elements mentioned stanzas 20 and 21, here’s what Karren Alenier [a.k.a. Steiny] had to say in the ModPo discussion forum:

“I'm thinking that the burning embers of coal look like copper in color. Copper is a stand in for Toklas who is Stein's spiritual home & the bread maker.

“I think tin is also a stand in for Toklas. Tin has 10 stable isotopes which puts it above all other elements in the periodic table. It is silvery in appearance.

Isotope means at its semantic roots in the same place (in the periodic table).

That’s why I think it points to Alice. It also has a relationship with copper.”

STEIN’S KIND

Steiny thinks it is imperative now to address in stanza 18 Stein’s repetition of kind (four times) with the additional kindly that follows up. Steiny’s theory as developed in thinking about the use of kind in section 1 “Objects” starting with the opening subpoem “A carafe, that is a blind glass.” is that gender can be substituted for the word kind. In this case, the overpowering repetition of there is a kind means that Stein is extremely concerned with and adamant about her own gender identification. That also plays into there is a bone, which might be slang for penis. Again Stein identifying as the male partner in her marriage with Toklas relates to a hidden relationship. In the contention with Leo, he is opposed to the marriage fearing that his sister will bring shame on herself.

The repetition of kind is also amplified by the other meanings of kind (a class of, type of, agreeable, loving) as well as the root word kin (family) as Treanor points out. All of these meanings showing a likeness or similarity, resemblance, relatedness. 

There are also more abstract ways of appreciating these stanzas and some of the following comments relate to gaming, art, and ways of thinking.

Emily W commented,

“Are the four choices the face of the cube?  and the four other choices on the opposite face?”

“What I notice is that everything is concrete, solid, there in the world, except hope, except daintiness and determination, which have no hope.  I'm puzzled by ‘dates.’  Are they the food or outings?”

Alenier answered,

“Surprisingly, in the studies last year of ‘Objects,’ there were various kinds of games encountered, especially card games. What has promise is not always a sure thing. Chance comes into play.

“Maybe hope in dates is pointing to hope inundates. [Steiny asks could this be a potential Spoonerism?] There seems to be a surge of this emotional state of hope but some of these items, like gates and doors, seem to be hindrances.

“I like your idea that the four choices might be a cube. Could be dice, no? I think gamblers call dice bones. I'm going to look.”

Here Steiny stops to appreciate Emily W’s comment about seeing the four faces of a cube and how this relates to Gertrude Stein being influenced by Pablo Picasso’s new style of art that came to be known as cubism. Now back to discussion forum comments being made by Alenier:

Yes, dice were often made of bones and called bones on the street.

The oldest known dice—dating back at least 8,000 years—consisted of found objects such as fruit pits, pebbles, and seashells. But the direct precursors of today’s dice were bone: the ankle bones of hoofed animals, such as sheep and oxen. These bones -later called astragalI by the  Greeks- were chosen because they are roughly cube-shaped, with two rounded sides that couldn’t be landed on, and four flat ones that could. Which side would be facing up after a toss, or a series of tosses, was as much a gamble to our ancestors as it is to us today. 

Emily W also commented, “If you count daintiness and determination as one, then there are 6 things, perfect for dice. But there is still hope in solid things not in daintiness and determination.” 

Intrigued by this kind of game, Alenier offered:

“Hope in gates, hope in spoons, hope in doors, hope in tables, no hope in daintiness and determination. Hope in dates.

“Ok, so the face of the dice show: gates, spoons, doors, tables, dates, and daintiness/determination.

“Or the face of the dice show: gates, spoons, doors, tables, daintiness, and determination with a surge of hope (not dates). It’s a little bit different game.

“So what happens if you roll gates--something obstructs you from winning as does doors. Rolling doors seems worse than gates because doors are a bigger obstruction because you usually can't see through it. Spoons seem positive, that surely you would receive something. If you roll daintiness that must be rewarding. The root meaning of dainty is excellent and worthy. But what would determination get you, an opportunity to barter?”

Cooking with Tender Buttons Food: Roastbeef. Stanzas 9-17. Discussion 4

THE BOOK ..........................-           TENDER BUTTONS

THE SUBBOOK ...................-           FOOD

THE SUBPOEM ..................-            Roastbeef

WORD COUNT (Total)……..-           1757

STANZA(S)............................-           37

—Stanzas 1-3

—Stanzas 4-8

THE LEADER........................-           THE STEINY ROAD POET

CO-LLABORATORS.............-            MODPO STUDENTS/THE BUTTONS

Here are “Roastbeef.” stanzas 9 through 17 with a 298-word count. Among the topics addressed in this post are: how Gertrude Stein reacted to her brother’s departure from 27 rue de Fleurus; cocks, cockiness and cock’s comb; hearing Walt Whitman’s barbaric yelp; Plato and the featherless biped.

Room to comb chickens and feathers and ripe purple, room to curve single plates and large sets and second silver, room to send everything away, room to save heat and distemper, room to search a light that is simpler, all room has no shadow.

There is no use there is no use at all in smell, in taste, in teeth, in toast, in anything, there is no use at all and the respect is mutual.

Why should that which is uneven, that which is resumed, that which is tolerable why should all this resemble a smell, a thing is there, it whistles, it is not narrower, why is there no obligation to stay away and yet courage, courage is everywhere and the best remains to stay.

If there could be that which is contained in that which is felt there would be a chair where there are chairs and there would be no more denial about a clatter. A clatter is not a smell. All this is good.

The Saturday evening which is Sunday is every week day. What choice is there when there is a difference. A regulation is not active. Thirstiness is not equal division.

Anyway, to be older and ageder is not a surfeit nor a suction, it is not dated and careful, it is not dirty. Any little thing is clean, rubbing is black. Why should ancient lambs be goats and young colts and never beef, why should they, they should because there is so much difference in age.

A sound, a whole sound is not separation, a whole sound is in an order.

Suppose there is a pigeon, suppose there is.

Looseness, why is there a shadow in a kitchen, there is a shadow in a kitchen because every little thing is bigger.

“[There is] a sense that there is a shadow (a dark presence) and that every little thing is getting bigger, a sense that things are being distorted, magnified, blown out of proportion, escalating. All does not seem well at the heart of the home.” Peter Treanor

AFTER LEO LEAVES, GERTRUDE STEIN GETS ROOM TO EXPAND

Just as “Roastbeef.” Discussion 3 began, the Steiny Road Poet thinks it is best to address the physical plane first and therefore goes once again to the biographical commentary detailed by Karren Alenier [a.k.a. Steiny Road Poet or Steiny] in the ModPo discussion forum. As stated, while stanza one has boat imagery, stanza four seems to point to relation-ship, so Stein continues the study of sister-brother relationship in stanzas 9 through 17. This time, Stein presents from her own point of view versus her brother’s. Alenier observed:

Room to comb chickens and feathers and ripe purple, room to curve single plates and large sets and second silver, room to send everything away, room to save heat and distemper, room to search a light that is simpler, all room has no shadow.

 “Gertrude is saying with Leo gone she has more room to do what she pleases. Ripe purple makes me think of grapes and the harvest season. Maybe GS wants to say she is coming into her harvest season as indicated by the plates which might be those involved with printing books, her books. The silver could also point to photo engraving, something also involved with the art of fine bookmaking. With Leo gone there will be less heat and distemper (anger). There will be an opportunity to explore bringing electric lights into the apartment (search a light)”

There is no use there is no use at all in smell, in taste, in teeth, in toast, in anything, there is no use at all and the respect is mutual.

“What I picture is an angry scene at breakfast (my cue is the toast) where Leo is baring his teeth over some minor infraction and Gertrude is saying facetiously that she is affording Leo the same respect he is affording her.”

Why should that which is uneven, that which is resumed, that which is tolerable why should all this resemble a smell, a thing is there, it whistles, it is not narrower, why is there no obligation to stay away and yet courage, courage is everywhere and the best remains to stay.

“Gertrude is responding to Leo whom she regards as cowardly to leave. Perhaps, he has said that the situation with Alice living with them stinks.” 

If there could be that which is contained in that which is felt there would be a chair where there are chairs and there would be no more denial about a clatter. A clatter is not a smell. All this is good.

“Like the table, the chair is a philosophic construct between Gertrude and Leo and deals in some capacity with existence. But chair could also refer to the French word chair, which means flesh or meat. Clatter could mean chatter. In any case, Gertrude and Leo constantly talked to each other about philosophic ideas and morality.”

The Saturday evening which is Sunday is every week day. What choice is there when there is a difference. A regulation is not active. Thirstiness is not equal division.

“Saturday evening is when they held their weekly parties. Perhaps some of those parties went late into Sunday morning?”

Anyway, to be older and ageder is not a surfeit nor a suction, it is not dated and careful, it is not dirty. Any little thing is clean, rubbing is black. Why should ancient lambs be goats and young colts and never beef, why should they, they should because there is so much difference in age.

“Could this be something to do with Leo saying he has come into his maturity because he wants to explore a relationship with a woman he has been seeing? There is also a sense of aged meat, aged flesh in this stanza.”

A sound, a whole sound is not separation, a whole sound is in an order.

“Is Stein talking noise or body of water? Is the order an edict from her brother Leo? Perhaps.”

Suppose there is a pigeon, suppose there is.

“Is the pigeon a bird or a dupe, someone victimized? Does Gertrude think her brother has fooled her in some way. Was she depending on him to always be there for her?”

Looseness, why is there a shadow in a kitchen, there is a shadow in a kitchen because every little thing is bigger.

“Is the shadow in the kitchen Alice, the one who cooks and nurtures? Are we back to thinking about the installation of electric lights?”

Peter Treanor responded to this biographical reading as follows:

“Yes, Karren, I really like the reading and can see the hot (roasting) beef between GS and Leo here and even an ominous shadow in the kitchen that is the cause of it (Alice). There seems to be a lot of birds, fowl, foul (chicken and pigeons) at this meat feast.

“The stanza 9 concentrates so repeatedly on room. Is she referring to the space to do something or an actual part of the house? It does have the feel of a kitchen, the place where food is prepared, but maybe the space to do it now that Leo's dominant presence has been removed or weakened.

“Is the chicken referring to something cowardly, or youthful (he’s no spring chicken—age is mentioned later) or foul? She speaks of smell later, a foul smell, something that stinks, as you say?

THE DELICACY OF COCKSCOMB

“The comb of chicken is served as a delicacy in France.

It is seen as a sign of the maleness, ‘cock-ness,’ cocky-ness of the bird. Has she chopped off Leo's comb in the kitchen, dethroned him, crowned herself king of the house with Alice as her queen? The comb can be many colours, including purple, but I like the idea of the ripe purple being grapes, wine or even plums (another allusion to ‘maleness’ there). There is a sense that things will be simpler now, now that whatever has been done has been done.

“There is a focus on smell and taste and something that whistles. The whistling intrigues me, what whistles? A bird like a canary or a kettle or a train is all I can think of. A whistling kettle makes me think we are in a kitchen, with all the tastes and smells and clatter of pans. And it whistles because it is heated up and steam is rising, which gives the impression of heat and pressure and steam being released in a high-tension emotional environment. Argument as ‘letting off’ steam.

“Chair as flesh is marvelous, and then there's chair as someone who is taking the lead role too, the chair of the (eating) meating [or meeting!]. Is she in the driving seat and liking it? Is she now the one carving the joint?

“The Saturday Sunday thing does seem to point to their Salons, and shedding light (in the room) and thirstiness (for knowledge) seem to suggest that there is an exchange of ideas and a search for meaning going on but maybe not everyone is engaged in this to the same degree.

“The ‘older and aged and ancient lambs and goats and young colts and never beef’ bit baffles me completely, but I love it! Who what is the ancient lamb?  Is it Jesus? (the Lamb of God?). But it’s the first time I can remember her talking about age so pointedly. Somehow here the age of the thing seems really important.

“And the last line feels really ominous to me , a sense that there is a shadow (a dark presence)  and that every little thing is getting bigger, a sense that things are being distorted, magnified, blown out of proportion, escalating. All does not seem well at the heart of the home.

“So yes, one of the roast beefs in ROASTBEEF is the hot dispute with Leo that is cooking between them.”

Alenier responded with enthusiasm:

“So interesting, Pete. About the cockscomb—a culinary delicacy and possible to be colored purple! And Gertrude assuming rule of the roost as lead cock!

“We are indebted to Allan Keeton for discovering the French connection between chair and flesh!

“And yes, to be chair, as in chair of the English Department. Someone in the driver's seat, which Stein was to assume when she learned to drive in WWI so she and Alice could deliver medical supplies to the French army.

“Pete, what a good interpretation to Thirstiness is not equal division! That is, light=knowledge and not everyone is operating on the same intellectual plane!

 “Here's another thought on this menagerie [ancient lambs and goats and young colts and never beef ] but first I'm going to set out the def:”

me•nag•er•ie (məˈnædʒ ə ri, -ˈnæʒ-) 

n.

1. a collection of wild or unusual animals, esp. for exhibition.

2. a place where they are kept or exhibited.

3. an unusual and varied group of people.

“This menagerie is the group of people (who considered themselves cultured therefore not wild, Xcept for thinking themselves hip) who come to the Stein salons. Maybe the dominant age for the salons ruled over by Leo was older and Gertrude wants younger folks there. This seems to play out in the 1920s when she begins attracting the young stallions like Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald.

Cooking with Tender Buttons Food: Roastbeef. Stanzas 4-8. Discussion 3

THE BOOK ..........................-           TENDER BUTTONS

THE SUBBOOK ...................-           FOOD

THE SUBPOEM ..................-            Roastbeef

WORD COUNT (Total)……..-           1757

STANZA(S)............................-           37

—Stanzas 1-3

THE LEADER........................-           THE STEINY ROAD POET

CO-LLABORATORS.............-            MODPO STUDENTS/THE BUTTONS

Here are “Roastbeef.” stanzas 4 through 8 with a 345-word count. Among the topics addressed in this post are: Leo Stein’s departure from 27 rue de fleurus, food and sex, water birds and boat navigation, kind versus gender, from feeling to thinking, knowing versus no-ing, Steinian grammar, finding William Blake’s Tyger in the lovely snipe.

Considering the circumstances there is no occasion for a reduction, considering that there is no pealing there is no occasion for an obligation, considering that there is no outrage there is no necessity for any reparation, considering that there is no particle sodden there is no occasion for deliberation. Considering everything and which way the turn is tending, considering everything why is there no restraint, considering everything what makes the place settle and the plate distinguish some specialties. The whole thing is not understood and this is not strange considering that there is no education, this is not strange because having that certainly does show the difference in cutting, it shows that when there is turning there is no distress.

In kind, in a control, in a period, in the alteration of pigeons, in kind cuts and thick and thin spaces, in kind ham and different colors, the length of leaning a strong thing outside not to make a sound but to suggest a crust, the principal taste is when there is a whole chance to be reasonable, this does not mean that there is overtaking, this means nothing precious, this means clearly that the chance to exercise is a social success. So then the sound is not obtrusive. Suppose it is obtrusive, suppose it is. What is certainly the desertion is not a reduced description, a description is not a birthday.

Lovely snipe and tender turn, excellent vapor and slender butter, all the splinter and the trunk, all the poisonous darkning drunk, all the joy in weak success, all the joyful tenderness, all the section and the tea, all the stouter symmetry.

Around the size that is small, inside the stern that is the middle, besides the remains that are praying, inside the between that is turning, all the region is measuring and melting is exaggerating.

Rectangular ribbon does not mean that there is no eruption it means that if there is no place to hold there is no place to spread. Kindness is not earnest, it is not assiduous it is not revered. 

“I was thinking that to begin with beef, roast beef, seemed very aggressively masculine. For as much as chicken plays through Tender Buttons, chicken does not have the political power of beef.” Karren Alenier

THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF LEO LEAVING GERTRUDE

The Steiny Road Poet thinks it is best to start this post on the physical plane and therefore goes to the biographical commentary detailed by Karren Alenier [a.k.a. Steiny Road Poet or Steiny] in the ModPo discussion forum. While stanza one has boat imagery, stanza four seems to point to relation-ship. This epiphany comes from Teri Rife in a discussion of later “Food” subpoem where Alenier kept raising the issue about why Gertrude Stein hid the subpoem “Chain-boats.” from the “Food” table of contents and why water vehicles keep popping up in the Food section. Therefore, Steiny thinks the hidden and mysterious boats have to do with the hidden relationship between Stein and Alice Toklas.

Karren Alenier said,

“Here’s one way of reading stanza 4 through Leo Stein’s departure from the apartment he shared with his sister Gertrude. 

Considering the circumstances there is no occasion for a reduction (The circumstance is Leo is angry that expenses for Alice are coming out of the expenses he shares with Gertrude and he is angry about the cubist influence Picasso has on his sister. He decides to leave taking a portion of the artwork and the furniture. This reduction of household items is no occasion to celebrate for Gertrude.),

“considering that there is no pealing there is no occasion for an obligation (When Alice met Gertrude, she said she heard bells ringing—pealing. As Leo leaves there is no celebration—no ringing of bells, like wedding bells—he also wants to assert his dependence to see if he might marry the woman he is seeing. So there is no obligation for Leo to leave),

“considering that there is no outrage there is no necessity for any reparation (Leo’s leave-taking occurred over many months. It was not a sudden storm of outrage and nothing could be done to repair the situation. He made his decision and he was not going to be deterred from separating.),

considering that there is no particle sodden there is no occasion for deliberation (In Stein’s writerly landscape the particles—articles, prepositions, conjunction—take a larger role in her grammar, a grammar looking to take the sentimentality—soddenness—out of sentences and to revitalize the English language. This was not arbitrary for her and she did not need to deliberate over this, but her brother disapproved of this cubist approach).

“Considering everything and which way the turn is tending, considering everything why is there no restraint, considering everything what makes the place settle and the plate distinguish some specialties. Leo was the axis (turn) around which their weekly salons turned and things were changing and restrictions that Leo imposed were lifted. Still the apartment was in an uproar as paintings, furniture, and household items were removed. Maybe his departure allowed Alice a greater opportunity to make special food that his delicate stomach could not tolerate.

“The whole thing is not understood and this is not strange considering that there is no education, this is not strange because having that certainly does show the difference in cutting, it shows that when there is turning there is no distress. The separation of sister and brother was hard for Gertrude to appreciate. They had been through so many life changing events together—deaths of their parents, move from West coast to East, undergraduate school in Boston, Woods Hole marine workshop, art-collecting in Paris and more. Gertrude was not prepared for losing her brother (no education). Leo was cutting his ties with Gertrude but still there was something positive in this turn of events because she could now pursue her writing career without being judged by her brother.”

To this interpretation, Steiny, who recently read “Favored Strangers: Gertrude and Her Family by Linda Wagner-Martin, will add to the last sentence of stanza 4 that Gertrude did not approve of Nina Auzias, the woman Leo would eventually marry. Gertrude said Nina, who was also known as Nina of Montparnasse because she was an artist’s model who slept around, was below Leo’s station. Nina did not have the formal education earned by Leo and she was poor and not in the same economic class as the Stein family. Leo also told Gertrude that her involvement with Alice would lead to Gertrude being socially shamed.

FINDING THE FOOD AND SEX IN ROASTBEEF

Unlike the first three stanzas of “Roastbeef.”, the next several stanzas seem to address food or food preparation.

In responding to a comment by Shirley Collins, Alenier suggested:

“Let's talk about Roastbeef, Shirley. There are kind cuts and thick and thin spaces in kind ham [stanza 5]. Maybe Stein has abbreviated ham-burger.”

Just to state the obvious, ground up, cooked beef might be in Stein’s shorthand an in kind ham.

Peter Treanor commented on this.

“Looking at this part of RBeef, through squinty eyes again, it seems that there is much more stuff that does seem to allude to food, food prep or having a meal than there was in the previous parts. Though they don’t necessarily jump out as all being related to roast beef. There's [from stanza 4:] reduction, peeling [pealing], sodden particle, tending, restraint, place, settle, plate, specialties, cutting, turning, [from stanza 5:] pigeons, kind cuts, thick and thin, ham, crust, taste, social success, des(s)ert-ion, reduced, [from stanza 6:] tender, turn, vapor, slender, butter, poisonous, drunk, tea, stout(er), [from stanza 7:] remains, measuring, melting, [from stanza 8:] spread. All are terms that would likely be found in a cookbook. So there’s a sense that at least on one level, she could be talking about food or a meal.

“Something that jumps out is what she does with pigeons [in stanza 5]. What are pigeons doing with Roast beef? Pigeon pie is a food, pigeon can be eaten. But the sentence is interesting. In kind, in a control, in a period, in the alteration of pigeons, in kind cuts and thick and thin spaces, in kind ham. She points points points to "in."  She uses it 3 times before in the alteration of pigeons. And there is pig in pigeons (and eons). She follows this with " in kind cuts and thick and thin spaces, in kind ham." In altering, cutting, slicing thick and thin the word "pigeons," we get pig/ham. In fact we get in kind ham.  In is in "in kind," pig is in pigeons, pig is a kind of ham.  Ham follows so close after pigeons and hasn’t been mentioned before it seems that there must be a link between them, surely? So to me, there seems to be a really strong sense here that she is using the sentence to indicate how to deconstruct or rearrange the sentence to get another meaning out of it. This seems to be something she does often (or it seems to me).

“The other thing that struck me as odd on first reading was the use of snipe [stanza 6]. Lovely snipe and tender turn. So snipe could be to criticise (but it is referred to as lovely so that would seem incongruous—though I know she wouldn’t flinch from incongruity) or it could be the bird Snipe. But it’s also an anagram of penis! (I know I keep seeing penises everywhere, what can I say, the thing seems full of them. Maybe they are only in the I of the beholder!) But if you read snipe as penis, it puts a whole different slant on the passage.

“Penis/snipe is lovely, tender turn, excellent and slender, butter  (creamy lubricant), all the trunk, poisonous darkening, drunk, joyful tenderness, weak, success, all the section, all the stouter, symmetrical.

“Then she ups the ante [in stanza 7]. Around the size that is small, inside the stern that is the middle (is she talking about anal sex? the stern meaning behind, the behind), inside the between that is turning, all the region is measuring and melting is exaggerating. (she repeats inside twice, is she emphasizing penetration? and focusing on size and exaggerating it! So very male in that respect.)

“Rectangular ribbon (? a condom) does not mean that there is no eruption (ejaculation) it means that if there is no place to hold there is no place to spread. Kindness is not earnest, it is not assiduous it is not revered. 
All this language [in stanza 8] seems really sexual and referring to the size and use of the penis/snipe.

“This roastbeef dinner is very hot.”

Alenier responded:

“I see the roastbeef din is not only hot but loud. Here let me pause to tell you how much I have been chuckling over your comments.

“As you point out with your analysis of pigeons==>pig + eons and how it stands side by side with in kind ham which also glances off me having said hamburger==>ham + burger and how that relates to roastbeef, well what we are seeing is the need to deconstruct and reconstruct her words even more than we felt the necessity to in "Objects".

“Ah, and now for the supreme anagram: snipe==>penis!

“From the beginning before I started dipping into the first subpoem of "Food," I was thinking that to begin with beef, roast beef, seemed very aggressively masculine. For as much as chicken plays through Tender Buttons, chicken does not have the political power of beef. But beef also plays into Stein's lesbian lexicon by pointing to cow, to which we know Stein has assigned sexual meaning (have a cow = orgasm).”

WATER BIRDS AND BOAT NAVIGATION

Then there is the matter that a snipe can be:

Any of various longbilled shore birds of the genus Gallinago or Capella, related to 

the woodcocks.

Alenier offered these comments:

“Given snipe is a bird with a long bill, I'm thinking this snipe is Alice with her long nose.

And since Pete has seen that snipe-->penis and I'm seeing snipes are related to woodcocks. Stein is having a lot of fun with the sexual linkages.”

Steiny adds that the snipe is a shore or riverbank bird. Alenier saw additional signs of a boat and water navigation:

Around the size that is small, inside the stern that is the middle, besides the remains that are praying, inside the between that is turning, all the region is measuring and melting is exaggerating.

“Stanza 7 reminds me of the following lines in stanza 1:”

All the standards have steamers and all the curtains have bed linen and all the yellow has discrimination and all the circle has circling. This makes sand.

“Why?

Cooking with Tender Buttons Food: Roastbeef. Stanzas 1-3. Discussion 2

THE BOOK ..........................-           TENDER BUTTONS

THE SUBBOOK ...................-           FOOD

THE SUBPOEM ..................-            Roastbeef

WORD COUNT (Total)……..-           1757

STANZA(S)............................-           37

THE LEADER........................-           THE STEINY ROAD POET

CO-LLABORATORS.............-            MODPO STUDENTS/THE BUTTONS

Because every word in Tender Buttons can open a universe of possibilities and the entire subpoem is composed of 1757 words, the challenge for approaching and discussing “Roastbeef.” is daunting. To the Buttons Collective (a group studying Tender Buttons with the ModPo MOOC discussion forum), the Steiny Road Poet served the longest subpoem of Tender Buttons as a diet of six portions. Even now after the discussion threads on “Roastbeef.” have sat dormant for many months, Steiny still feels the hugeness and the difficulty of how to organize and “make sense” of the commentary. So she will proceed by making at least seven separate posts (including the post on the title alone) and she will chew the fat of “Roastbeef.” as she goes. Most likely Steiny will see things that were not discussed. This is what happens when anyone rereads Stein’s work but especially Tender Buttons.

Thus we begin with the first three stanzas of “Roastbeef.”, which has a 395-word count, including the title. Among the topics addressed in this post are boats, cows, Old Testament and Shakespearean reverberations, and Stein’s lexicon including dirt and meadow.

ROASTBEEF.

In the inside there is sleeping, in the outside there is reddening, in the morning there is meaning, in the evening there is feeling. In the evening there is feeling. In feeling anything is resting, in feeling anything is mounting, in feeling there is resignation, in feeling there is recognition, in feeling there is recurrence and entirely mistaken there is pinching. All the standards have steamers and all the curtains have bed linen and all the yellow has discrimination and all the circle has circling. This makes sand.

Very well. Certainly the length is thinner and the rest, the round rest has a longer summer. To shine, why not shine, to shine, to station, to enlarge, to hurry the measure all this means nothing if there is singing, if there is singing then there is the resumption.

The change the dirt, not to change dirt means that there is no beefsteak and not to have that is no obstruction, it is so easy to exchange meaning, it is so easy to see the difference. The difference is that a plain resource is not entangled with thickness and it does not mean that thickness shows such cutting, it does mean that a meadow is useful and a cow absurd. It does not mean that there are tears, it does not mean that exudation is cumbersome, it means no more than a memory, a choice and a reestablishment, it means more than any escape from a surrounding extra. All the time that there is use there is use and any time there is a surface there is a surface, and every time there is an exception there is an exception and every time there is a division there is a dividing. Any time there is a surface there is a surface and every time there is a suggestion there is a suggestion and every time there is silence there is silence and every time that is languid there is that there then and not oftener, not always, not particular, tender and changing and external and central and surrounded and singular and simple and the same and the surface and the circle and the shine and the succor and the white and the same and the better and the red and the same and the centre and the yellow and the tender and the better, and altogether.

“The first thing that strikes me is that there's very little mention of food in it, little to do with roast beef.” Peter Treanor

WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR …

Stanza one could depict a riverboat traveling from night into dawn. Because there is sleeping on the inside contrasted with reddening on the outside, one gets the feeling there could be some illicit sex involved. Possibly it could be sex between Gertrude and Alice. Is someone like Gertrude embarrassed? Anything is mounting and pinching (pinching as in the slang meaning of stealing) also seems to support this idea of something unlawful going on. All the standards have steamers may be flags (standards) flying on these riverboats which have paddlewheels that circle and stir up sand. If the yellow represents the sun, then in the light of day comes discrimination (against a same sex couple?), especially as the text moves in stanza three to the land.

In the ModPo discussion forum, Karren Alenier [a.k.a. Steiny] stated the following:

“So if the last sentences of stanza 1 refer to a riverboat with a paddle wheel. The second stanza resonates with water (well) and some kind of measurements related to the navigation of the boat. Those boats were run in the summer and lots of gambling took place on them as well as entertainment including singing.”

Peter Treanor added, “there were passenger steam boats in Paris on the Seine at this time too, although they were dwindling in popularity as the railways and Metro were replacing them.”

Steiny finds it interesting that Stein begins the Food section with text that seems to indicate a boat because her table of contents does not include the subpoem entitled “Chain-boats.”. A chain boat is a modified paddleboat that ran in shallow waters and was used on the Seine River to transport such items as food.

STEIN’S ACTIVE LYRICISM

What immediately struck Steiny when she read the first stanza was the lyricism that Stein creates with repetition and the use of ing words. Here’s how Alenier mapped that:

In the--5X

In feeling --5X  (feeling--7X)

there is --28X (in the first 3 stanzas)

ing--19X (first stanza)

sleeping

reddening

morning

meaning

evening

feeling

evening

feeling

feeling

anything

resting

feeling

anything

mounting

feeling

feeling

feeling

pinching

circling

IS STEIN IMITATING THE BIBLE?

Alenier said that possibly Stein was “imitating the Bible which uses repetition, particularly the word and. Alenier offered the following passage from Genesis [King James version]:

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Existence was a dominant theme for Stein ever since she had learned that she and her brother Leo were replacement children after the fourth and fifth Stein children died in their infancy. While the order of the Tender Buttons sections—“Objects”, “Food”, and “Rooms”—was selected by Stein’s Claire Marie publisher, the power of beginning Tender Buttons with “A carafe, that is a blind glass.” and its many intimations of birth and its shadings that point to a Jewish Biblical landscape made Steiny rethink how significant the tone of “Roastbeef.”’s stanza one is relative to the passage of Genesis as stated above.

This thought made Steiny do some bean counting through out the entire 37 stanzas of “Roastbeef.” Here is what Steiny saw:

Words Repeated     Number of times

and                             107

there is                        72

there are                        9

With the repetition of the word feeling, Stein has expanded the conception of the verb to be—as a baby born or not, considering that Gertrude may not have been born except for the death of other siblings—making to be bigger than birth with emphasis on union. Union depends heavily on the conjunction a-n-d, where A or a throughout Tender Buttons stands for [A]lice Toklas. Tender Buttons is thus the sacred covenant or bible of Gertrude Stein’s clandestine marriage to Alice Babette Toklas.

As Genesis repeats and to make the text flow like the waters God creates in conjunction with the firmament, stanza one of section two “Food”/ subpoem one “Roastbeef.” not only creates fluidity by repeating and four times but also by repeating there is nine times and by using ing words 19 times.

In discussing the crossover words with Judy Meibach, Alenier noted that, in stanza three, words like dirt [The change the dirt, not to change dirt means that there is no beefsteak] and meadow [it does mean that a meadow is useful and a cow absurd] might be stand-ins for firmament while dividing [every time there is a division there is a dividing] and exudation [it does not mean that exudation is cumbersome] correlate to birth (birth of planet Earth and humankind that God eventually creates). Alenier also referred to this passage of Genesis:

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Alenier continued, “Stein was vocal about procreating. She said she believed in it though she never thought of herself as a woman who would bear children. I believe she was vocal about this when she was in medical school [where she went into the African-American community and assisted with the delivery of children].”

IN THE RURAL HAVEN WITH THE ABSURD COW

For the moment, Steiny will put Stein’s lyricism on hold to address the physicality and literalness of these introductory 395 words. Do these three stanza have anything to do with the food called roast beef?

Here’s what Treanor observed:

“Reading it, the piece as a whole, standing back and squinting my eyes a bit, the first thing that strikes me is that there's very little mention of food in it, little to do with roast beef. There’s the mention of beefsteak and the absurd cow grazing in the meadow and converting dirt to grass to meat and maybe milk (a cumbersome exudate from the memory/ mammary, cows udders get very cumbersome before they are milked). Seems like there is more to do with producing tender meat on the cow than there is to do with killing, cooking, and eating it.

“But what comes over to me is the sense of being in a sunny summer day, people sleeping inside and getting suntanned (reddening) outside. The yellow, circle has circling, and to shine seem like the sun. There is sand as well.

“All seems very well, there is singing. The dirt is changing to grass in the meadow, the grass is not entangled, it’s lush meadow, cows are eating and growing producing meat and milk. The white could be more milk and the better could be butter. It’s a time of plenty—there’s a lot of dividing and repeating in the text indicating fruitfulness, growth, and the rhythm of the days. She points to this repeating and dividing having to do with—surface, suggestion, silence, languid (rest), tender(ness), change, being external and central. And there’s warmth and support (succor). It all feels very relaxed and productive, a rural haven, a Forest of Arden.”

DIRT, DIRTIER, DIRTY

The change the dirt, not to change dirt means that there is no beefsteak and not to have that is no obstruction, it is so easy to exchange meaning, it is so easy to see the difference. The difference is that a plain resource is not entangled with thickness and it does not mean that thickness shows such cutting, it does mean that a meadow is useful and a cow absurd.

Allan Keeton said, riffing on the passage above from stanza three “Roastbeef.”:

It is so easy to exchange meanings—

dirt -> meadow -> cow -> roastbeef -> human

it is so easy to see the difference.

Not to change the dirt means there is no beefsteak.

Without changing the grammar

there is no poem

ROASTBEEF.

Steiny sees this Great Chain of Being interpretation (where everything has its place) as Stein shaking up the universe with her revolutionary grammar. Keeton equates dirt to Stein’s grammar revolution. In Stein’s rules of grammar, she juxtaposes contrasting words as well as picking them apart. Therefore, in close proximity, Stein gives us change the dirt and exchange meaning.

Alenier also pulled out these words from stanza three because they seemed to create a dialectic for Stein about whether she should accept the union between herself and Toklas:

obstruction (vs. exchange)

mean-ing (vs. difference--I am dividing the word to show its negative behavioral side)

a choice

a reestablishment

escape

exception

a division

tender and changing

altogether

However, the appearance of dirt would not be complete without a look at how Stein refers to dirt in various subpoems of section 1 “Objects”. Here’s what Alenier compiled in the ModPo discussion forum:

“Casting out the net from Food to Objects (dirt)”

“Food”—“Roastbeef.”:

The change the dirt, not to change dirt means that there is no beefsteak and not to have that is no obstruction, it is so easy to exchange meaning, it is so easy to see the difference. 

“Objects”

A SUBSTANCE IN A CUSHION.

Callous is something that hardening leaves behind what will be soft if there is a genuine interest in there being present as many girls as men. Does this change. It shows that dirt is clean when there is a volume. 

A PIECE OF COFFEE. (excerpt)

A single image is not splendor. Dirty is yellow. A sign of more in not mentioned. A piece of coffee is not a detainer. The resemblance to yellow is dirtier and distincter. The clean mixture is whiter and not coal color, never more coal color than altogether. 

DIRT AND NOT COPPER. (excerpt)

Dirt and not copper makes a color darker. …

A RED STAMP. 

If lilies are lily white if they exhaust noise and distance and even dust, if they dusty will dirt a surface that has no extreme grace, if they do this and it is not necessary it is not at all necessary if they do this they need a catalogue. 

A PIANO. (excerpt)

... If there is no dirt in a pin and there can be none scarcely, if there is not then the place is the same as up standing. 

A CHAIR. (excerpt)

If the chance to dirty diminishing is necessary, if it is why is there no complexion, why is there no rubbing, why is there no special protection. 

“Dirt, dirtier, dirty is used in Objects 8 times and 11 times in Food.

“Dirt pertains to appearance for Stein and it seems to be fraught with negative connotations but not always as in ‘Dirt and not copper.’  and ‘A red stamp.’, which pertain to natural elements. Probably ‘A piano.’ is not negative but just a fact.

“Often Stein is contrasting dirt with what is clean. This seems to fall into the Jewish frame of what is kosher and what is trayfe (unclean). Relative to kosher ritual, one can make a knife kosher by plunging it into dirt. If a Torah (holy scripture written on a sacred scroll) is retired, it is buried with the kind of honors given a deceased person.”

Treanor reacted to Alenier’s dirt study by saying:

“Dirt baffles me. It’s such a strange word to use.

Is it dust, earth/ mud /soil or an uncleanness? Or is it just dirt?

Is it the same meaning when used each time? It doesn’t seem like it can be in the contexts it is used.

“Dirt is so brief and curt, and there seems to be a disparaging moral / judgmental aspect to it also. To be dirty seems to be morally questionable somehow.”

Alenier responded:

“I agree it's curt, cruel  and very judgmental when it is not just the element of the earth. I think it is tied to being judged for the same-sex union.

“and look at the root meaning:

[Middle English, variant of drit, excrement, filth, mud, from Old Norse.]

“I think it goes with death, dearth (scarcity, paucity, inadequate number).

“But still we come from the earth and go back to the earth.”